When Travis says “cult,” what does he mean?
In light of recent concerns (via e-mail) about my calling Chesapeake Community Church a cult, and given Abraham Piper’s recent post regarding author’s intent, here is my working definition for “cult”:
“A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group’s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community.”
(HT: Wikipedia)
May 29th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
The description of your former church represents thousands of churches. It about money.
Your definition of a cult describes Jesus and his followers, except for the “detriment” possibility in the last sentence and the “unethical” reference. Sadly the structure of the average western evangelical church lends itself to unchristian interaction that resembles a family operated company rather than a thriving and healthy spiritual atmosphere.
Follow the money/debt and you will arrive at the motivation for most of the control.
June 28th, 2008 at 2:26 am
I would disagree with Rick about the idea that MOST churches are all about the aqcuisition of wealth from their members. I would say however that the patter you’ve seen in your church is indicative of at least one more Sovereign Grace Minisitries Church.
I’m so sad for their members. They live in fear.
September 21st, 2008 at 3:41 am
Probably no one will ever read this, as it looks like this thread died a long time ago… if you do I’d love an e-mail or something.
I’m a cult survivor, or rather a cult castaway. I grew up in the church and was kept isolated in a “church neighborhood” to the point that I honestly didn’t realize there could be a way to live outside CLC. We were only allowed to talk to church kids; we were required to come indoors for adult supervision if a non-church neighbor stepped outside… Outsiders, we were told, all meant to rape or kidnap or abuse us because they were ‘jealous of our rich lives and happiness within the church’. My siblings and I were homeschooled. We were only allowed to participate in church sanctioned groups and activities.
My schism began because of my insistence on receiving a secondary education – despite being a girl. Girls were raised only to get married and raise more kids. If a girl didn’t marry she stayed with her parents indefinitely.
Anyway, my demand for an education was considered rebellious and heretical. That on top of my ongoing battles with depression and anorexia nervosa (church-diagnosed as ungratefulness and vanity, respectively) landed me in nine months of two times a week, two hours a session, “pastoral counseling”. It only ended when I locked myself in my room and refused to come out… My mom bashed a hole in the door with a hammer, then detached the doorknob to drag me out. I jumped out at a stoplight and didn’t return for two days, when my dad promised via my self-purchased cell phone that the counseling would stop if I came home.
I was finally disowned and excommunicated several months later when my parents uncovered my relationship with my best friend – who is also female. I was given two weeks to either repent, cut ties with all friends, and return to counseling, or I was out. By wording it this way, they have continued to insist it was my choice to leave and that my exit was completely against their wishes and advice. My entire family, uncles, aunts, grandparents, still remain in CLC or one of its sister churches.
According to my younger sister, who still ocasionally contacts me without their permission, I was first blacklisted then erased completely from church records. My sister said no one is allowed to mention me and she had to find a new network of friends when I left because the whole family was shunned for a time. None of her current friends know I exist.
I left three years ago last month, and two suicide attempts, many hospitalizations, and many, many hours of therapy later, I’m still standing. Crystal and I are celebrating our fourth anniversity today and now live together fifteen hundred miles away from that place.
I didn’t know it was possible to lead a life like this, beautiful and uncensored, with as much damn information about anything I could ever want! To find info like this, speaking out against that place, is blowing my mind.
I know my story sounds crazy. Probably no one will believe it, even if they do read it… I just want my voice to be finally heard. Maybe it will help keep someone else from
losing hope.
September 21st, 2008 at 3:46 am
Sorry for any and all typos… I’m updating from my blackberry and am so tired that Qwerty is proving complicated
October 25th, 2008 at 1:06 am
If Sovereign Grace Ministries was a cult they would be put into the same category of the Boston Church, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons. The theologians of today would point them out as being a cult rather than write books with them, teach seminars with them and fellowship with them. All one has to do is go to monergismdotcom and see CJ Mahaney listed alongside of John Piper, R.C. Sproul,Tim Keller, Sinclair Ferguson, John MacArthur, Al Mohler, James White, Michael Horton, D.A. Carson, Mark Dever, John Frame, James Boice, J. Ligon Duncan III, Iain H Murray,Arturo Azurdia III, and J.I. Packer. If Sovereign Grace Ministries was a cult, these men would speak up.
In Christ,
Paul
November 27th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Taylor,
I believe you.
I’m so very sorry you experienced all that pain.
I know a young man who still has had serious pain and confusion from all the counseling he was told by pastors from SGM — years later.
I don’t believe your relationship is right, but that’s different than condemning you.
I am so glad you are doing better these days.
There’s a lot of information –Christian and secular — out there on cult recovery.
SGMSurvivors.com is a good place to start.
Best wishes on your future.
February 27th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
[...] like. It was written from a guy named Travis who attended a SGM church in Virginia. His website, On the Other Hand, is really good. He has a few posts concerning his own personal exodus from Sovereign Grace, but he [...]
March 8th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
For those interested I have a 100 question cult test. I’d be curious where SGM scores.