I want to kick off “quotes week” on a serious note, but the Monkey song was just too darned funny. Anyway, here’s my original Monday post:
“…how is it that CJ Mahaney can make 5 references to his pride and arrogance in his blog, [and] that’s somehow celebrated as humility… [but Larry Tomczak] is confronted with observations of pride and arrogance, prayerfully considers these observations, repents of his sin, writes a letter to this effect that is distributed to the entire ministry, steps down from leadership, and submits to months of disciplinary consequences… [only to be considered] ‘disqualified’ to lead a church?
“I’m sorry. But this woman’s posts—more than any others (b/c she was obviously involved in this process)—has convinced me that Sovereign Grace is a cult.”
(comment by “SGM Casualty” on SGM Survivors)
This website is blowing the lid off of the corruption and poor leadership that’s been allowed to fester in Sovereign Grace Ministries, due to years of fear, control, and cultic tactics. It’s heartbreaking to hear some of the stories from former members; moreso to hear the ensuing silence from SGM leadership.
There’s nasty stuff in there, folks, but C.J. et al seem to want to just circle the wagons. Honestly? I think that’s worse than anything that’s being said over on the blog (and new message board).
“Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.“ — Ephesians 5:11 (ESV)
UPDATE: On Friday, March 14th, Eric Simmons spoke to the singles at Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, MD. You can download the MP3 of his talk, but what I find most interesting is this particular quote (beginning at the 13:49 mark):
I’m also concerned because at this point in time, we are at the pinnacle of the Information Age. You can in an instant find tons of information on any subject you want on Google. Do you realize that Google allows you to be one step away from a lot of heresies?
There are a lot of heretics out there with a lot of false teachings that have blogs. And it’s phenomenal to me in our age now, that what is represented on the Internet is now seen as fact, and authority, and truth! And the reality? Most of these guys who are writing blogs are 24-year-old guys living in their moms’ basement, sitting there in their underwear! That’s what they’re doing! They’ve got a robe on, and they’re just typing away. And they’re typing away their false teaching, which is honestly a bunch of garbage.
It’s out there! It’s just one click away.
I would humbly submit that this is nothing more than fear-based propaganda. (I would also like to point out that C.J. Mahaney, Josh Harris and Eric Simmons are all bloggers–Eric doubly so, as he also writes for the New Attitude blog.)
UPDATE #2: I seem to have driven the “Orthodoxy Underground” further underground, as can be attested by Google’s cached versions of these Blogger profiles. (Thanks to Elaine Hooton for pointing out that the blog was apparently taken down.) I don’t know much of anything about the blog (it was private; you had to be pre-approved by their admins just to read it), but apparently (according to Google) Thabiti Anyabwile, Justin Buzzard and Ricky Alcantar were all members of the blog. So why’d they delete the whole thing, just a few days after this matter came up? 
UPDATE #3: Bugger. The Google Cache link doesn’t work anymore. Well, it just listed the Blogger profiles for Eric, Thabiti, Justin and Ricky (and showed them as linked to the Orthodoxy Underground site). Thanks to Dan for catching this one!
UPDATE #4: What do I mean by “cult”? Find out here.
I find it sad that pretty much what everyone here is saying is based off of hearsay, how many of you have actually gone to this covenant life church or really talked to pastors of Sovereign grace ministries. If you have and you find things that are abnormally wrong (for we are all human and they are bound to be incorrect from time to time) than i would respect what you have to say. But i have lived in 3 states and gone to many many churches and out of the ones that i have attended, while they do have their flaws, Sovereign grace ministries and CLC would have to be in the top 5 churches as far as really living out what God has called us to do in the church. Most people on here seem to not be searching for the truth but simply judging instead of living by grace and letting God guide them, if they are in the wrong, than stop acting like Children and don’t get each other all riled up, this reminds me of a high school football team before they go play, everyone getting everyone else hyped up to go beat the “other” guys.
Matthew 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Thank you Tony you so clearly stated my main concern
John,
“…how many of you have actually gone to this covenant life church or really talked to pastors of Sovereign grace ministries.”
Um… most of the people commenting here are either current or former members of an SGM church. And most of what we’re saying is our thoughts regarding an MP3 recording–that’s not hearsay.
So did you accidentally post your comment on the wrong thread? I’m confused.
it is a sad tragity when the church goes sideways any church .if our hope is to reflect the the perfect spotless image the lamb of god or the awseome power of our great iam.this is gods means of grace to effect our fallen world (condition)or( previous condition).why is it this broken model of “church” that was choosen ?that is a god question .we also see church interpetations as varied as the gifts ,so balance with the holy scriptures is very good .well if the church is founded in their douctrines ,then its members should be able to see the fruit and heart of the gospbel breathing and beating healthy .most illnesses in churches can come from three places -1 leaning to far on one belife(a true support) over looking preasious valuable belives like a cripple.2 the unrest misdirection from leaders unwilling see or hear a correction
3 is what evil satin pulls off while were adrift. so any other profitable comments are are prayer. dear god help all involved ,it is your church. pour your presious blood over both sides the museles of stiff necked leaders and the mouths of indivuals thirsty for faith some full of gravel ,keep them from chokeing .send the holy sprit to give of your liveing waters, wash memorys,visit brokenharted, heal households, the betrayed,hopelessness, the confused ,the arrogant. jesus help those whos arms or unsure of worship or some who won’t greet or hug a fellow brother in the grocery store or in church.make paths of peace clear to both side. those who havent taken communion visit them ,visit also those who have forgotten what bread & wine represent then swallow it any way .keep your love in our mind when we begin to think like cain.god pleace have mercy on this sin surrounding sgm.if we are unwilling to do this humbly ,pray you either stop the worship music untill we can attend to this or have mercy on our souls . thank you for both your tenderness and power you are our helperyou are our helper our helper.sprit be all around those who are sleeping as they begin to awake . weather by ommission or commission let no christian fall away.
Hi
Am david from uganda, am man of 30 year, brown colour and midium hight, i recieved crist as my personal savoiur and am married but with no kid.i have achurch which i go to and in that church am the youth pastor, i went to a theological school and obtained my degree in theology.am a teacher by profession,andcurrently as i write to you,i have started a schooland currently it has 60 pupils.on addition to that i have started a fellowship known as LIFETALK CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP.This one helps to bring out testimonies like yhe one i have read on your website ie my work is to bring outvictims of life to light.We do this every saturdays to bring these people together to give out the testimonies.
My aim of writing this to you is when i read these testimonies i felt to have found some body whom we can partner.
i will be very happy if my partnership is considered,please feel free to ask me any thing am ready to answer it
GOD BLESS
I wish I lived close enough to Gaithersburg to attend CLC. Our family lived in Maryland for 2 years and we attended CLC for three months and SLC for a year. Both were awesome. I would say we liked CLC better, but it was a 45 minute drive to get there so we decided to pick a church that was closer.
If you didn’t like SG, then you don’t know what a good church looks like. A cult by definition departs from the essentials of the historic Christian faith as codified in the creeds. SG does not depart from the essentials, so they are not a cult. Just because you dislike them or do not agree with them, doesn’t mean they are a cult. No church is perfect. Find one that you agree with and stop being such a whiner and complainer! Read Josh Harris’ book Stop Dating the Church or Mark Dever’s 9 Marks of a Healthy Church
. These lay out biblical principals for finding a good church.
Until then, stop being that pathetic person that Eric Simmons was talking about complaining in their underwear. I tend to be critical and a complainer too, but it will never help your walk with Christ or the building up of others to keep selfishly “venting” all day. My kids get a spanking for whining. Maybe you need a good spanking!
I see two things here: people who don’t accept that they are SHEEP. people who don’t accept that they have a SHEPHERD. Is Christianity a cult? If you say no, then you have no clue about the nature of Christianity. Christianity is a cult, so much so, that Pliny (ancient figure writing to Caesar) equates Christianity with the Mystery Cults of his day. The term cult is bad in our day, but not then, and we are all part of a cult, no matter what we believe. cult(ure)…The sheep/shepherd analogy that Christ uses is cultic language. The real actual issue is not whether or not SovGrace is a cult, but whether or not a person is going to submit to the gifts and offices that Christ has set up in His Church. This is the post-modern mindset.
I have read of definite abuses of pastors in ALL churches. This doesn’t mean anything. Of course they would abuse their position, they are sinners.
Since, probably, no one here is trained in the Bible, nor called to pastor a church, but called to be a dumb sheep of God, think of Peter, our great example of the perfect pastor, and then rethink your position. We get mad when people make Christianity about what the Christian does, why aren’t we applying the same to SovGrace. C.J. or Simmons, et.al. are not Sovereign Grace Ministries, their message is.
I attend Grace Church San Diego, a Sovereign Grace affiliated church. I’m not a proud member of a cult, but a believer in the message that Christianity spreads: the Gospel. I know that you are proud of that too.
May God bless us with the remembrance of what His Son has done by the power of the Holy Spirit for His Own glory,
Chad Brewer
chadlovesjesus@hotmail.com
Chad, sounds like you need to go back and listen again to what your own pastor said last Sunday.
We have a shepherd. His name is Jesus. Anyone else who claims the title is trying to usurp His role in our lives.
This is a bummer. I honestly do not believe you are right about these guys. They are together for the Gospel of Our Lord. Its sad that there is disunity in the Church because people fear cultish tactics. And honestly. I have seen no cultish tactics at all whatsoever. I am encouraged to read the Word and am under Biblical teaching. Its sad that you preach disunity on the grounds of fear. I do admit I have seen or heard of things that werent the best choice. But that happens everywhere. I think the most important thing is that the Gospel is preached and people are getting saved.