Rick Santorum played y’all for fools. Don’t believe me (or Glenn)? Ask the DoD.
Travis Seitler
Sarasota, FL web designer & developer
Rick Santorum played y’all for fools. Don’t believe me (or Glenn)? Ask the DoD.
Is it just me or did Saddam use just 3 bombs of mustard gas killing 5,000 kurds? So, does degraded mean that if he had hundreds of these weapons he could only kill 500 people per bomb? What is that like 250,000 people? Yeah I wish we would have left those weapons in his hands! Talk about foolish! Political propaganda would be to say recovering these weapons is meaningless.
No, Jake, “degraded” means it’s useless.
So if a weapon is used to kill people and the report says it is still “potentially lethal”… how do you use the term useless? I would say a “useless” weapon is one that can’t kill anybody. A usefull weapon is one that is still “potentially lethal”. Why spin this?
From the article I linked:
I have not said anything about mythical WMD’s or defended this administration. I have simply stated the obvious that these weapons are now in our hands and that is better than the alternative! You want to get political and make fun of Washington, that’s your call. My point is that our boys are over there doing stuff we can be proud of and when reports like this come out we should applaud the sacrifices of our guys and not diminish their work. It’s amazing to me how callous people get to the reality of the good that’s going on over there just because they hate this President. Applaud the good once in a while, that’s all.
Yeah, it was a really good idea for us to help establish an Islamo-facist government. Yay us.
Your “boys” are wasting their lives over there.
Nothing like trading in a leash for a cage.
Politics don’t create right and wrong… I could care less what type of gov’t they establish or what their constitution says. As soon as they, in whatever form of government they create, pillage another country (raping and killing its citizens to gain new territory), mass kill an ethinic group (5000 kurds for example), or harbor terrorists like Abu Musab Zarqawi (who set up a weapons lab in Northern Iraq under Saddam) I will gladly go back in the name of right and wrong to stop that evil government! Until then don’t talk about the politics of the new gov’t as if that makes the war right or wrong.
“Politics don’t create right and wrong…”
I’m going to politely refer you to Godwin’s Law.
“As soon as they, in whatever form of government they create, pillage another country (raping and killing its citizens to gain new territory), mass kill an ethinic group (5000 kurds for example), or harbor terrorists like Abu Musab Zarqawi (who set up a weapons lab in Northern Iraq under Saddam) I will gladly go back in the name of right and wrong to stop that evil government!”
But only if it’s Iraq — I mean, it doesn’t count if it’s the U.S. that’s doing that stuff. It’s all understandable in that case.
I would also like to politely add that the United States has done its fair share of evil deeds over the past few hundred years (just ask the slaves or the Native Americans), so it seems a little… hypocritical… to set ourselves up as the moral authority of the world.
Probably just me.
I *do* love America, however. I just think we’re biting off more than we can (or should) chew.
I guess you are going to have to forgive my ignorance on where we are invading other countries to add to our territory (stealing the natural resources), involved in ethnic cleansing, and permitting terrorists to work in our borders. Yes, spin away! and If this gov’t is doing that I will call for its justice as well.
And we were wrong for the slaves and Native Americans… so that doesn’t mean because we screwed up in our past it makes it right for another country to do it!
Jake, there’s a difference between saying something is right, and saying it’s wrong, but we have no jurisdiction in the matter.
I am convinced that extra-marital sex is evil and an abominable act. I am not thereby justified to force people outside of my authority to comply with my conviction. The United States and Saddam’s Iraq were autonomous nations; neither had authority over the other. Iraq had not attacked us, therefore this was not a just war.
Travis,
I appreciate your simple, but strait-forward reply while avoiding showing me how our current government is involved in ethnic cleansing and harboring terrorists. The problem with your theory is that it not held up in reality, it almost sounds like pharasies agrument to uphold the law (jurisdiction in your case) when they should have been healing/caring for the sick on the Sabbath (defending against malicious acts of torture and genocide). When does my power make my response to evil a duty? On a large scale WWI and WWII (Germany) would not be justified as they are out of our authority. Any country under Germany’s authority would be his and not ours so our involvment would not be justified. On a smaller scale if I see a man break into my neighbors house and start beating on a child it would be my responsibility to act. I would refer you to the final episode of Seinfeld in this case! At some point your power does give you responsiblity/authority that you cannot turn a blind eye to guys like Saddam. Wouldn’t it? I really am interested in your opinion on this, are we never to defend the cause of people outside of our authority?
The Axis (Japan) attacked us. After Pearl Harbor, Germany became our enemy. But here comes the Nazi talk.
As I said before, let me refer you to Godwin’s Law.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll leave politcal debates to the “pros.”
You totally left out my smaller scale debate just so you could throw in Godwin’s Law one more time… and we didn’t fight in the European theater with Germany because Japan attacked us, you got the timetable right but the reasons for each are separate. That’s like saying I ate dinner, the evening news came on, as if they waited for me to finish eating.
The question has nothing to do with Godwin’s Law. Is there a point when your power gives you responsibility?
how our current government is involved in ethnic cleansing
Abortion is strongly linked to eugenics, and not just because of Margaret Sanger: african-american women are 3 times more likely than caucasians to abort; hispanic women are 2.5 times more likely.
and harboring terrorists
Have you ever heard of Luis Posada Carriles?
Wow! Those are a stretch. Drive-bys must be strongly linked to eugenics as well since people who are shot in a drive-by are 3 times more likely to be african-american than caucasian. So when a white girl walks into an abortion clinic and kills her baby she is trying to purify an ethnic group like what Saddam did to the Kurds? Yeah! I think she has alot of other things on her mind than cleaning up her own race!
Terrorists – you compared Luis Carriles sitting in an El Paso jail cell at 77 yrs old to Saddam allowing Zarqawi to develop a weapons lab in Northern Iraq, enough said.
Travis – our country isn’t as bad as you make it out to be and it isn’t good either, its full of sinners… even our President! Does that mean that America has no duty to ever wield the sword when it sees cruelty to human life? Hey with Saddam I’m confident we got one right, he deserves whatever he gets. I agree with you though hopefully we’ll get more right at home as well (abortion, criminals not justly punished, etc). I can’t look next door and see the girl being beat up and raped and say well I’ve got my own problems over here even if I just hit my wife the night before. If I do nothing then I was wrong both times, if I help the girl (outside of my authority which you didn’t comment on) I was still wrong the night before and guilty of that but I was right to stop the guy next door.
Jake S. –
I only threw out Godwin’s Law cuz I knew it was inevitable that there was gunna be some “Nazi talk.” Granted, we ARE talking about war, so I suppose it’s warranted. Failed attempt at humor on my part. (Humoring myself, that is)
I ignored your smaller scale debate because 1) I’m not much into debate, especially over the internet and 2) there’s zero chance of me persuading you to change your views, as is there of you changing mine, so what’s the point?
Personally, I’ve never viewed this war us the U.S. being so cavalier as to save those poor, suffering Iraqis from a cruel dictator. If that was truly our motivation, fine. But I don’t think it ever was.
I think the plan was to wipe out Saddam from the start of the Bush administration, not because we’re doing it for the good of the people of Iraq, but rather because he was viewed as a potential threat and the “do unto others before they do unto you” mentality came into play.
Normally most Americans wouldn’t have agreed to sending troops over to Iraq, but 9/11 provided the administration with much-needed public support to attack anyone who might even remotely be connected to al-Qaeda.
Yes, Saddam was an evil dictator. Yes, he may have been a threat at some point (but I doubt to the degree the Bush administration was making it out to be.) Do I think we should have taken it upon ourselves to go storming in? Do I think we should have sent our young men and women to die for this?
No. Why?
Iraq MIGHT have been a threat. But so might North Korea. Iran. China. Cuba. The list goes on and on. Since when has the US foreign policy been to attack those who MIGHT become a threat at some point? What, since we’re the last real superpower, we now have the muscle to smack down anyone who defies us — so we have a God-given responsibility to do so? And under the guise of “doing it for their own good” — which is, to me at least, the most nauseating part.
We’re walking on thin ice, and no matter how it’s spun, I don’t see how the Jesus of the Bible would condone such behavior. Yet many on the right rally around this war like it’s our Manifest Destiny. How is our rallying for war in the name of God any different that the radical Islamists rallying for war in the name of Allah?
This is revenge, not a liberation. Other countries are in similar situations, yet we don’t go marching off to their aid. There’s nothing in it for us.
Again, just my opinion. You’re free to disagree.
Travis –
Wow, 19 or 20 responses in less than 24 hours. You oughtta push that hot button more often.
Kneon,
The points you made are fair enough, where does it end if we attack Iraq.?… I get that and I agree. Whatever the political motivations of the prez seem secondary to whether there is just cause for removing Saddam. More than anything my point is just on a blog such as this it is good to recognize the good that is being done and not just harp on the political problems. Getting those weapons are a good thing. Its the same thing here at home… I could harp on all the problems and point fingers at all the politicians I don’t agree with or I could wake up everyday thanking God for the freedoms I have and say this land is “better than I deserve”. Just trying to bring a positive perspective. Thanks for your sincere points.
Jake
Travis – 20 responses ain’t bad! We’ll try for more next time!
Heh. Speaking of Saddam:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060623/od_nm/iraq_saddam_dc_4